Saving KITG

[KingMe]

I didn't know weather to make this a blog or a discussion so I just went with a discussion, maybe it will generate some feed back.

I see some people have a problem with the KITG becoming a subscription site, and we will probably lose some good contributors because of It. That being said, I think it is a great idea. Some seem to think that paying 20 bucks is a rip off , especially for a site that isn't constantly updated with a plethora of videos or whatever some people are looking for. I never really thought that was the purpose of this site though. KITG always seemed like a place where people can go to connected with others with similar interest, on a topic that is judged and ridiculed, or considered taboo or what not. This is a place where people can talk about this kind of shit and not worry about being judged for it, or be uncomfortable with that part of their own personality. If you want something to just get off to, there are plenty of other sites out there, all you have to do is google it.

I think making this site a subscription site is an opportunity to improve the over all quality of our site, as it will cut a lot of the bullshit profiles, trolls, and lurkers. Some of the stuff on this site varies from causal, strange, to down right fucking crazy, this is a ADULT site, so it will deter under age individuals from trying to sign up.

Out of the 6086 members there is only roughly a hundred or so that donate, and actually contribute to the site, and I know those people are worried that KITG will become a ghost town. That can only happen if YOU, the contributors, stop coming to the site. A community can never thrive and grow if there is no one to support it, same implies for KITG. This is your site as much as it is Mallory's and Dvhour's. What would be he point other wise?

20 bucks a year is nothing. That makes it what, $1.67 a month? I can find that in my couch most of the time. I think that we should be more focused on how we can make the site better from here on out, and come up with new ideas to improve the quality of our site.

[Foo Bar]

I've never contributed money to KITG because, frankly, I really dislike the tone of the demands for a contribution.  It doesn't feel remotely friendly.  I know the purpose of the money is to keep the site running, but the way it's demanded always feels like a shakedown.

Now we have the threat to turn KITG private, and enclose all the data thousands of users have freely contributed.  Maybe this is an inherent problem with using a service like Ning.  Really makes me think twice about using any website where my contributions become someone else's private property. 

[dvhour (Site Owner)]

Bettis

Lets be honest I DV interrogated you. and I do agree that I did ask you some questions... HOWEVER... we ask for donations we don't say donate or don't come back. Thats why they are called donations. As i recall you misinterpreted my tone and intent and thats unfortunate... As I recall you ran off before I could even have an intelligent conversation with you... I hardly call that aggressive tactics its merely us having a dialog other than ballbusting cause its about the future of the site, if you didn't want to talk about it all you had to say was, I would like to think about this another time or can we discuss this later or something like that... not run off like someone is abusing you..  Its sad that you feel the need to reap the Free benefits of this site and stay silent for 2 YEARS only to come on this site now trying to alter the energy of this site by posting such a maligning comment. I'm trying to be productive and proactive in making this work... if you sit back and complain and malign someones character and don't have any solutions or contributions to make then you offer nothing but negative energy and  to be honest its not wanted here. 

[Tender Boy]

I am fine with KITG asking for $20.  It seems reasonable enough. 

My concern isn't about a paywall being justifiable, it's the practical matter of what will happen to the site once people have to pay.  The committed membership will remain.  But it's going to be a much smaller group than we have now.

Some people seem to think the only loss will be the lurkers.  I am not so sure.  I look at the list of 105 contributors (so far) on the sidebar and I see some great people there, but I also know some  interesting people who are not on that list.  Maybe they'll contribute in the future and re-join, or maybe not.

I have a further observation which some here may view as taboo but I'll say it anyway.

I see some people on that list with whom I've had enough communication to know they are not who they claim to be.  They "contribute" a lot, but I believe it is fraudulent.  My concern is that post-paywall, these fake-but-committed people will make up a larger percentage of the remaining group than they do now, and the site will not only feel like a smaller place, but a less genuine one.

In my opinion it will also become extremely difficult to attract new (real) female members.  I think that's a typical issue for most sexually-oriented websites, but especially for ballbusting.

Hopefully I am wrong.

[Hurts!]

keep in mind $20 is US DOLLARS, so here that's about $30, and yes the site is going to lose a lot of people because there are so many way to chat to people for free online such as forums etc. and most of the clips here you can get on youtube, the chat feature is really the only thing it has going for it over other sites but like I said there are free places out there

[Jax]

I follow what ur saying but even if its 30 bucks with ur exchange rate that's for the entire year. 30 bucks for 12 months is basically $2.50 per month. For the US people thats about 1.60 per month at the 20 buck rate... and considering everyone was allowed to buy this years membership for 10 bucks that's actually just 83 cents per month. Unless there's a fundamental issue with paying anything at all for a site like this I don't know how much cheaper they could go... having said that I do think the countdown for funds raised would've been a great idea considering I dunno if the total was short or exceeded the amount necessary or if that would've even had an impact on the decision to go with a subscription.

[KingMe]

Thanks guys, all valid points, and i undersatand where you are coming from, trust me. Obviously the lines have been drawn and people will leave and some will standby to see how things pan out. it all leads to the same qustion though; how do you get people to keep joining the site with 20 price tag attached to it? That will come down to the people still here. That's all I'm saying, change always sucks but that is just the way things go sometimes :( If your gone when the smoke clears, good luck to you, I enjoyed talking to you :)

[KingMe]

As did I, but I thought that was the point of a donation. If your giving the money away, what does it matter what happens to it, its a donation. If only donated to keep using the site then technically you are already paying for it. So whats the difference?

[Jax]

I thought this was an interesting point, and I wonder how the admins feel about doing a countdown on the HomePage for the amount raised that way everyone could see their impact and how much more was needed to hit the deadline.  I also donated just a little bit over the minimum in the hopes of helping keep the site open and a week or so ago I logged on and sent a chat MSG to Dvhour asking how much was left and I sent another private msg to Mal asking if she was still up... at the time I'd just had a property closing that left me with some extra cash and thought how awesome it would be if I could just swoop in and pay off the rest for everyone (stupid gestures that make me feel like the man until I go broke)... but I didn't know how much was left or whether or not it would be left open to everyone.  DV logged off shortly after and I didn't hear back from Mal either (and hey there is no accusation with that, I dunno if either even saw the chat window open and it sounds like DV and Mal have both been getting slammed from ingrates recently so private chat isn’t something I just expect them to be open to doing all day long, plus I could’ve emailed them… I love what they do and have so much respect for what they’ve both created here).  Although willing to do it at the time the following day I realized I could still email them and ask to clarify whether hitting the mark would mean the site stays open for all (if I’d shelled out the 800 bucks I would’ve wanted it to be on the basis that the site would be open for another year) but ultimately the next day I was back to being selfish again and didn't try to get in touch with them about it.  

I’ve really been amazed at how much bitterness there's been over the subscription fees and I just thought the idea of having a counter that shows how much money is left to be raised was a good idea and also I think there was some confuse there, at least on my part and it sounds like Devin’s, that if the mark was hit that it would stay open to all.  As it is I’m not sure how much was finally raised and I’m guessing if it didn’t even come close that Mal and Dvhour covered it out of their own pockets.  Anyway just a suggestion… a counter and clarity for next time.  Some of the language used in this discussion has definitely been the most unfriendly and uncozy I’ve ever seen on this site and I’m sorry that it’s directed at the admins… agree with the decision or not it’s no cause to be disrespectful especially to the people that run the site. Just my two cents.

[G Reezik]

Who said it's becoming a pay site?  There's still 3 days before that decision is made and also just because there are more than 100 people who donated doesn't mean they all donated the same amount of money. Until we get an email from Dvhour and Mallory about KITG becoming a paid subscription site nobody should assume anything. I'm not sure how close they are to reaching the goal or if they exceeded it already but like I said before there are over 100 donors but some of them might have contributed more or less than $10.00. I'm sure we'll know on September 1st what the future has in store for KITG. No need to jump to conclusions before the final verdict. All we can do now is just wait and maybe ask how things are coming along if they feel comfortable sharing that information.

[dvhour (Site Owner)]

@Foo Bar 

Imagine that I was an idle wanderer who needed a place to rest his head when I was in your part of town... and you and your family welcomed me into your home, you pay all the bills, you feed me, you give me security and a place to lie my head, you don't ask of me to do any chores and for me to enjoy the large estate that we have.... THEN... one day  the bank says Foo Bar you need to raise $1000 dollars or you'll loose your estate and then you ask me and a number of the other folks who come to visit your home to give $10 dollars to keep home free and open to the people plus all the benefits. Then I say something like "I really dislike your tone of demands, It doesn't feel remotely friendly.." I will just go find another free place that take me in. Keep in mind we have been asking for Donations for 4 years and NOT forcing people to do anything. 

Granted lodging, food and shelter is not the same as what KITG provides but hell give us some credit for having the vision and the genuine interest to provide something special for the BB and CB community. I'm sure many of you will find another home some of you already have other places you consider home but you will not have a place like this.  You wonder why our tone sounds the way that it does. Honestly, I'm shocked that you are so selfish and short sighted sir. 

I want to remind people that this is not just a regular video site or forum its a very specific fetish that has a PG-rated vibe, its carefully moderated, socially engaging and full fledged social network with an instant messaging app. Even if we were not on NING and had our own server, with over 400+ visitors daily to this site there are masses and masses of data being eaten up. Running this site is definitely not cheap. We didn't create this site for profit, we had no idea what we were getting into but we definitely do not see ourselves as Ballbustingtube or Femaledom or She Owns your Manhood or Clubdom or any other paid ad supported site or some other $30 a month subscription site. 

[Foo Bar]

Sir - actually, setting up a public Ning service isn't even remotely similar to inviting someone into one's home and providing food & shelter. 

The user-submitted data - stories, videos, chats, etc - not the trivial Ning configuration are what give this site value.  That data was freely submitted by thousands of users on the tacit understanding they were contributing to a public community.  To threaten enclosure and privatization of that data is to betray the trust of every user who contributed.

[dvhour (Site Owner)]

@Nate 

@Devin S @Kingy @G Reezik @Tender Boy @Foo Bar

Mallory and I thank you soooo much for posting this Nate. Its always healthy to have positive energy feeding the site. People hear donation and they freeze up. Its totally understandable I think we all do it. For the past four years we have been evangelizing that this is OUR community we are glad that someone was listening. It means a lot to us to have your support and a proactive perspective. 

I recognize that many of you have been concerned about the tone and intent of our messaging. I will take most of the responsibility for the aggressive stance but please understand we are not greedy people and we have had nothing but an unyielding commitment to the BB and CB community as a whole for the past 4 years. This site was created as a labour of love, Mallory and myself we are not in this for the money… This is literally a 365 day commitment most often than not we are here on business rather than pleasure.  

With regards to the donations we actually have tried the handholding method and we were less aggressive and  chipper in our approach but each year it still yielded the same result of donors and contributors. Advertising sounds like an awesome idea and maybe there are creative ways to do it... But there are several issues we have to contend with. 1.. A few years ago we tried to do an affiliate program with shoe, clothing, tech and a few other non kink ideas every single one of the vendors we reached out to rejected us. 2.. We are trying not to look or feel like other kink websites or like another BBTube with X-Rated ads and raunchy imagery. Thats one sure way to get kicked off our Parent Network NING and its a sure fire way to alienate the comfy cozy feel of this site and its membership.

Mallory and I have finally discovered a solution. It has zero to do with advertising, it has nothing to do with begging for money any more... we basically resigned to the idea that this is not working as a free site and expecting people to pay at the end of the summer is just not viable any more... so... its best that we just impose a subscription service. True people do not pay for Fetlife or Facebook but we are something way more, we are a customized Groinbusting site that caters to the casual and hardcore folks. If people see the value in it then thats beautiful but if people do not then we welcome them to create something better. And even then we would still support you.